Andrew Guzman, dean of the Gould School of Law, University of Southern California, was in India recently. He spoke to TOI’s Ishani Duttagupta about some of the factors that Indian law students should consider when they go for higher education to the US. From visa issues, when it comes to finding jobs after graduation; to navigating the US legal system there are some challenges; but none are insurmountable, Dean Guzman feels. Edited excerpts from the interview.
What are the challenges that Indian students face in joining law courses at American universities? There are thousands of Indian students going to the US to study certain disciplines such as engineering and business management, but it seems that less number of students go for higher education in law.
We find that among our international students, the Indian students do very well. One reason is that they have obvious language advantages because they speak English, which many non-US students don’t. They come from a common law system which has some overlap. Where they face challenges, is mostly in the cultural differences. Although we have the same legal background, both the US and the Indian systems stem from a British background, the way we deliver in the US is quite different from India. So, for example, when we teach, there’s much more dialogue with the students, there’s much more back and forth with the students, we write exams in a different way. And then there’s the cultural difference because you’re moving from India to the United States and you’re living your life there. There too, students adapt very quickly, they have to navigate life in the US and life within a US university.
What are the differences between the master of law (LLM) and the juris doctor (JD) law degrees? Which of these do Indian students usually pursue?
The JD is a three-year degree. The overwhelming majority of students are Americans who have an American university degree. The LLM is a one-year degree and students who join it already have a law degree from their own country. So it would typically be an LLM for an Indian student and they come for one year. The LLM gets you the ability to take the bar exam in California and in New York. The JD degree allows you to take a bar exam in any state in the United States. So, they are different in that sense and they are recognised differently in the legal marketplace. The JD graduate is understood to be someone who has a longer experience in US education and is coming out of that programme, and the LLM degree is understood to be more typically a non-US student who has spent one year studying in the US.
For Indian students who would get a law degree from your university, for instance, what is the career path ahead and what are the challenges? Also, keeping in mind that Indians who start working in the US, are on very long work permits and a tough path towards permanent residency.
The long delay in getting a green card is definitely a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. It is true that the visa is the key and for students beyond the one year optional professional training (OPT) that is permitted after the degree, employment is required. They have to secure an employer who is prepared to sponsor them for their visa. Students who are employed and secure the first visa have to make sure that they preserve it and renew it; but it’s a manageable process and it allows you to work. So, the visa and the employment go hand in hand, and it’s fair to say it provides an extra challenge, but it’s one that I think can be met.
The other thing is that, the majority of our foreign students, including majority of our Indian students who’re doing an LLM degree return home to work in their home countries. There is value in both the legal training we provide and the cross-cultural experience, so that when they return, they’re more effective attorneys in their home countries.
Do you see number of Indian students increasing in your university? Also, do you have a large number of faculty in your law courses who are of Indian origin?
It does seem that the number of applicants to our programmes and the number who attend have gone up and there’s more interest from Indian students in these degrees. We try to build a faculty that reflects the multiculturalism and diversity of the United States and that includes Indian Americans. On the full-time faculty, we have professors Deepika Sharma and Anitha Cadambi, who are of Indian origin.
What are some of the financing options available?
Every student who applies to our programme is considered for scholarships which are all merit-based, and so the stronger students get the most. But we do review every application automatically. There’s a variety of scholarships available outside the university and some students secure them.
We have seen in recent years several people of Indian origin, in significantly prominent roles in the US legal system. But is it difficult or perhaps impossible for someone who goes as a law student from India to rise up the ranks and reach such senior levels?
There are a couple of challenges. One, the JD degree is the more conventional path that leads you to standard employment, which would then lead to becoming a judge or a public official. So, you have to navigate that process. The second thing is, some of the positions do require US citizenship. If you want to be a federal judge, you need to be a US citizen. There’s a contrast with a tech sector or a science area. Science and math are the same everywhere, and somebody who learns those technical skills in one country can arrive in another country and immediately perform. Law and legal customs are not the same everywhere. It’s a little more challenging to adapt to those, and it’s very difficult to really just arrive with the skillset and deploy it. You need time to learn the nuances of the particular legal market you’re in. That too is manageable, especially if you come in your 20s, because if you enter the workforce at that point, by the time you’re in your 30s, you’re going to look like any other lawyer in that system.
There are thousands of Indians facing tough paths from a temporary work permit to the permanent resident green card, and hence there are several legal procedures that they have to go through. Do you see a lot of Indians specialising in immigration law because it ties into their own experience in the US?
There is certainly a group of lawyers from India who work in that space. I am not sure whether they’re disproportionately represented. There is a tendency understandably for someone seeking immigration assistance to seek it from somebody who has a common background. So, maybe Indians are seeking Indian immigration attorneys more often because they are both Indian or Indian American. But it is not my sense that a disproportionate number of our students would be going into immigration law. It is also true that my school might not be representative.

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